Priesthood Power and the Magic Worldview

Lightmindedness

Posted June 26th, 2016

John Hamer teaches Glenn, Randy, and Jake a thing or two about the LDS priesthood. And its origins. And its authority. And its power. And the magical-ness of the Mormon Worldview. And it is funny. And informative. And will tickle your ears, warm your hearts, and engorge your brains. Do not seek the treasure (we thought you was a toad).

Glenn

Jake

John

Randy

  • Aaron

    I had John Hamer’s “Priesthood Power” tune stuck in my head for weeks and now it’s happening all over again lol!

    • Thomas Moore

      I know this has a true “earworm” power (sorta like “Soft Kitty” or “Smelly Cat”). Damn it. Now I’m going to be singing this song in bank lines, while driving, etc… And this comes from a Muggle who never had the highest Priesthood wizard power.

  • So the teenagers in the white shirts and black ties passing out the water and Wonder Bread were priests? Wow.

    Engaging discussion. The nod to Ralph Stanley was a touch of class.

  • Thomas Moore

    Okay guys (sorry Heather wasn’t on) so here’s my history/thoughts on what you guys were talking about.

    1) The “Dusting off of your feet” is a priesthood rite, which I was taught and told was the authority of only the Mission President. Hence the same power and authority to open a city or area for mission work; the opposite was to close or curse it. Which I guess is better since there’s so many hot headed nutso Elders out on missions.

    2) Even though Jesus himself had all of the power of God, he didn’t have all of the keys or authority which is why he had to go to John the Baptist for baptism; and why Elijah and Moses had to appear to him on the Mount of Transfiguration to give him the authority/keys to gather up the Dead and gather/lead Israel (He only had the authority to preach to the tribe of Judah). Which is also the “reason” that Elijah and Moses couldn’t die and had to be translated instead, so that they could physically pass on the Keys/Authority to the Messiah.

    3) Eliza Snow’s blessing of the oxen, even though she quoted or called on the power of the priesthood, it was her faith that healed the ox; kinda like the woman being healed by touching the hem of Jesus’ garments.

    4) The church today, has totally dismissed the “Patriarchal Priesthood”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchal_priesthood At one time though they preached and taught it consistently. They used it in the D&C saying a descendent of Aaron (Levite) was born to be bishop and could claim the office and authority to rule over the Aaronic priesthood in an area (ward). It was also used in their racist teachings, that the “Ten Lost Tribes” when leaving Babylon went North then East and West (Caucus Mountains) so the Caucasians and Asians received Israel’s blood line, yet the Southern countries (Africa) never did because they didn’t comingle or receive the priesthood. This also was the reason that they believed that the Muslims did have a type of priesthood from Ishmael as taught by Parley P. Pratt JoD 3: disc 7 https://journalofdiscourses.com/3/7

    Which is why they said that Mormons are closer to the Crescent than to the Cross because of Muslims modesty of dress, no alcohol, polygamy, etc…

    • Randy_Snyder

      My friend Mohammed, a Palestinian Muslim who would shout “Jihad!” in the hallways of dental school until 9/11 happened (I was in dental school from 1999-2003), would gush to me about how much he loves Mormons bc we get it, unlike the debaucherous Christians all around here. He loved how similar we were to his faith.

      • hetaira

        Debaucherous Christians sounds like a great name for a band. Thanks for Rick-Rolling us at the end, to whomever was editing. Perfect time for it.

        • I always liked Mel Chesadick and the Ironic Priesthood, but don’t tell anybody,OK?

        • hetaira

          Oh, Glenn must have edited – who else would insert the Randy-pee sounds?

    • Detestimony

      I am a member of the Cohanim, and therefore, according to Jewish tradition, a direct descendant of Aaron. When I was a teenager, my stake president told my father to do the research and confirm his lineage with clear evidence, because it may impact his callings and even a right to be bishop. See D&C 68. My dad didn’t do it, because he thought it was ridiculous. He was called as the stake patriarch instead.

      Maybe I should go to my stake president now and make a legal claim to the bishopric. We’d have the most hipster ward, and sacrament meeting would no longer be a snooze-fest, e.g., using wine for sacrament and various herbs for spiritual experiences. I guarantee the activity rate would skyrocket.

      • Thomas Moore

        Right, now what if the person making the Cohen/Cohanim claim was part of the African LembaTribe which DNA proved them to be Sephardic??? How will they feel when they realize that many Palestinians /Samaritans share the DNA? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/cohanim-dna-connection/

        • Thomas Moore

          I was going to add that it was the concept of “Patriarchal Priesthood” which gave Joseph Smith the idea to ordain his sons Prophet, Seer & Revelator; also Brigham Young to ordain his sons apostles. Now what happens with Moses Thatcher who was kicked out of the Q12 back to a Seventy? Does he have to destroy his old line of authority?

    • Orrin Dayne

      I had heard that a mission president could dust his feet. But the folklore story I heard included missionaries that, for some reason, left their laundry unattended in a Laundromat. When they returned, they discovered (GASP!) the proprietors of the Laundromat had hung the garments out on display for all the patrons to mock. After hearing of the story, the mission president later came, dusted his feet, and the Laundromat burned to the ground that night. BOOM!!!

      • Thomas Moore

        Yeah, this was a FPR that was usually told by every single return Missionary. Someone in the Laundry had painted “Mormon Monkey Suit” on the old one pieces (so it had to be pre 1982???). But I heard this rehashed so many times that many Elders believed it happened in their mission. There’s also the story of Missionaries that went to a faith healer tent revival; one of the missionaries had a broken leg; so when they called up people to be healed the missionary with the broken leg went up and was healed. Later when they went to the MP confused and wondering, the Mission President cast out the evil spirits on the “healed” missionary, and his leg was broke again. So I guess by the power of the priesthood, the missionary was un-healed?!?!

  • L. Thomas

    Glenn mentioned not having the time to read through the Book of Mormon with a critical eye on the topic of Priesthood. For those who are interested in such an analysis, it is available here: http://rationalfaiths.com/priesthood-book-mormon/

    • Glenn

      It wasn’t a lack of time as much as a lack of self-masochistic tendencies. Thanks for the link. 🙂

    • Thomas Moore

      There was one “issue” of authority which was pointed out to me by a GA. He pointed out that Jesus had ordained 12 Apostles, but when he visited the Nephites in America, he ordained 12 Disciples. His conjecture was that there could only be 12 Apostles on the Earth at a time.
      This was before I found out that Brigham Young had ordained his 3 sons as apostles. Or Moses Thatcher was kicked out of the Quorum of the 12 and back to the Q70s, but was still an ordained as Apostle. I also learned about the office of “Assistant to the 12 Apostles” of which the assistants were ordained Apostles, but never became set apart as part of the Quorum. The best example is Alvin R. Dyer Assistant in the First Presidency, but the other apostles disliked him, so once kicked out became a 70?!?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_R._Dyer

  • Dwight

    There is a priesthood line of authority and it is based on the office held by the officator of the ordination. I was given this as something I could show people on my mission exactly where my authority came from. You can see the details at https://www.lds.org/help/support/request-a-priesthood-line-of-authority?lang=eng Of course the root event never happened so I don’t know what good it is.

    • Matthew Vernon

      John was right in this line of questioning, but it didn’t quite gain traction in the discussion; my priesthood lineage paper went through the high priest ordination of my dad and his predecessors, which bothered me because I didn’t know if my lineage would change when I became a high priest myself. And it basically went through general authorities all the way through my grandpa, which made my priesthood even more awesome, I was worried whoever ordained me a high priest would be some nobody dickwattle

      • CocoaCoveredHeretic

        Yeah I’m pretty sure that they got this one wrong. I always understood that your line of authority did change with each office change. I remember thinking that I really liked my line of authority because it was so short. My grandfather was ordained by President Hinkley which made me feel special. I hoped that I could be ordained a high priest when the time came by my dad so I could keep the same line of authority.

        I could certainly have been wrong about this but my point is that John wasn’t the first one to think it.

  • Daylan Darby

    I specifically leave a small whisk broom on the front porch just so I can point to it and say “Don’t forgot to dust your feet” when I reject the religious message they want to leave me.

    • What a fantastic idea! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard this week or last. I’m going to get a whisk broom and a fancy hook while I’m out today. (Better get some hefty chain as well, lest it go the way of the ballpoint pen at the bank counter.) The whisk broom at the front door could become the language neutral international symbol for “No Soliciting.” I’m still laughing—that’s a good one.

  • game_of_thrones

    You make Sundays bearable. Thank you!

  • Orrin Dayne

    I think Randy may have won the “quote of the episode” award with this one: “Is that an eloquent way of saying ‘shit happens’?”

  • Orrin Dayne

    Even as a believer, I used to mock the Legacy ox blessing, imagining the woman asking, “So, ox, … what is your middle name?”

  • Orrin Dayne

    I was taught that our job was to bless people to be healed without caveats, so I never used phrases like “according to God’s will” or “according to your faith.” Once, when blessing a friend of mine who was sick, I commanded him to be whole. At the time, I felt the weasel words showed a lack of faith. It’s a damn shame that the best I was actually giving them was the placebo effect. Oh well.

    Regarding the “by the power and authority” language, the blessing guidelines say you’re supposed to say “by the authority of …” which supports the notion that it is authority. Jake hinted at the idea that power comes through the worthiness/righteousness of the priesthood holder, which is an idea that I had heard. Eventually, as a believer, I determined that my “worthiness” was irrelevant because, if God would withhold a blessing to someone who needed it based on my failings, God would be a total dick. And God wasn’t a dick.

  • Enos = #occupyheaven ?

    My mom was divorced when she joined the church, and she remarried an asshole when I was 11. She left him my senior year in high school. I have 2 younger sisters and no brothers. I never felt like priesthood was needed in my home, and I saw too many exercising “unrighteous dominion” and/or using their priesthood despite worthiness problems that I didn’t really feel strongly about it being powerful. I figured maybe there could be something superhuman about it with the some guys (user error vs priesthood being inherently useless), but I mostly just saw it as a tool to enforce patriarchy. My husband had to deal with being the only priesthood in the home bullshit (his father died when he was 11, and he had 3 sisters and a brother born shortly afterwards). I found his mother’s reliance on him to come do shit when we were dating/newlyweds to be super annoying and a bit vomit-inducing. It’s better now, but I think that’s more to do with baby brother growing up. She still has my husband pick who blesses the food or says family prayer when we visit because penishood.

    • hetaira

      Ugh, good luck with that situation. Thanks for the quotes around “unrighteous dominion” since the term implies there’s such a thing as “righteous dominion” – both vomit-inducing.

    • Orrin Dayne

      My NOM wife still looks to me to choose someone to pray. Sometimes, to mess with her, I’ve just sat there silently and done nothing or asked her whom she’d like to pray.

  • Seth L.

    Great episode. The priesthood I was taught and I had was the one of magic. We were wizards. We had all these powers and that was backed up by all the myths and stories told.

    My favorite was the lessons on blessing homes and casting out demons. Every time that came up everyone had a story from their mission of casting out demons from a home when they blessed the home.

    • Thomas Moore

      My favorite was the blessing or dedicating of the graves. Were they afraid the dead Mormons would become vampires or zombies?

  • CocoaCoveredHeretic

    Thanks for the discussion infants. Well done as always. I would love to hear you guys dive in deeper to the inconsistencies with the priesthood restoration narrative. Randy started going through it and my interest was really piqued and then things got derailed by the tangent about the timing of Oliver Cowdrey falling out of favor and you never really got back to it.

    I think you could do a whole episode just on the reasons why the story of the restoration of the priesthood is untenable. I personally would find that topic very interesting.

    • Travis Gower

      Seconded. Randy mentioned Dan Vogel as he spoke about those inconsistencies in the priesthood restoration narrative. I’d really like some good articles and/or books to read about this.

      • Samuel Rogers

        Thirded

        • Norenzayan

          Fourthed

      • Randy_Snyder

        Go to MormonThink and type priesthood restoration into the search box and you’ll get a shit ton of Dan Vogel material.

        • Ron Hill

          Did so … Did not.

          • Randy_Snyder

            You have to scroll down but here’s two videos. Warning, Dan Vogel’s monotone delivery can be sleep inducing:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP_nMHqILyE

          • Yes, I really enjoy the videos, but Dan needs to hire a voice-over dude (or dudess) to read the material.

          • Ron Hill

            Haha – If 2 is a shit ton then you my friend have some pretty large shits. I’m subscribed to Dan’s Youtube channel so I’ve watched all his videos.

    • Randy_Snyder

      I was wrong about Oliver falling out of favor w the Fanny Alger thing bc that came later. Joseph was a politician by nature and Oliver got shelved by Joseph when they got to Kirtland bc he had no political worth. Sydney Rigdon, on the other hand, has charisma and a whole congregation of followers and very soon he leap-frogged Oliver as Joseph’s #2. But then when things got hairy in Independence and Kirtland and Partridge directly challenging Joseph’s authority, that shook him. That’s when he concocted the miraculous priesthood origin story in late 1834-early 1835 but he had to have a witness that was plausible for the time period and he needed a witness bc his credibility took a shot. Oliver was the man and w the promise of becoming #2 again, he was seduced to go along (until the Fanny Alger thing horrified him to the point of getting the boot). Not only did they concoct the John the Baptist/Peter, James and John story, they doubled down with the behind the Vail in the Kirtland temple story to add keys to their priesthood authority. Only Joseph and Oliver had those “visions” of Moses, Elias and Elijah.

      • CocoaCoveredHeretic

        Thanks for the follow-up Randy! That is an interesting explanation that I haven’t heard before. What kind of evidence does Vogel give to support this?

        Also something else that you said that I was curious about was the fact that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery couldn’t possibly have been in the same place during the time when the priesthood was supposed to have been restored? What did you mean by that? Where was Oliver Cowdery? Was there some reason that they had to choose this time period for the restoration story that they came up with? If so did they just decide that even though it was problematic to just say “‘eh fuck it” or did they just not think through the potential problem? Did they just think that nobody would ever fact check the story? (I realize this isn’t something that you can personally know definitively, I just want to “double click on this” to quote bob. I’m definitely interested in more information!

        Anyway this is one of those things that struck me when I read Rough Stone Rolling that I really wanted to learn more about, but that I’ve just never gotten around to researching. I’m sure I can track down the info if you don’t have it off the top of your head but I appreciate whatever direction you can point me in to learn more!

        • For what it’s worth, in Vogel’s videos his style is generally to put up a graphic of the page out of the book where he got the info. Then you can decide whether it’s trustworthy or not. I am academically sloppy, myself. I take his word for the authenticity of the stuff he cites, but what actually means more to me is that nobody I’ve ever heard of is screaming “Liar, liar, pants on fire!” at Vogel, not even the Church. Some apologists will differ with Vogel on the interpretation of the accounts, but generally not with the content itself. Their tone seems to be more, “Well, there are differing ways to understand these things.”

          • CocoaCoveredHeretic

            I suppose that I alway hear things like this in the context of hypothetical conversations that I have with the TBMs in my life. At a certain point the preponderance of evidence has changed my view to stop giving the benefit of the doubt to the church. But obviously the TBMs in my life don’t view things that way and would probably not accept the common sense trail of breadcrumbs that lead to this conclusion.

            So while the explanation makes sense to me and I’m perfectly willing to take this version of events as the most likely, I find myself wanting perfectly sited impeachable sources for some imaginary discussion I’ve invented in my head.

            Really it is probably ridiculous of me to even think in those terms. (even if it happens subconsciously) But old habits die hard I guess.

          • Travis Gower

            I know exactly what you mean. I do the same thing, usually even when I wish I could just stop.

          • I’ve read apologists who say that they are not prepared to believe anything that there is not a sworn written account of. OK, but that discounts most of human history. The telling tale, as far as I’m concerned, is the way the fizz has just gone out of the church since the early days. Revelation and prophesy (what there was of it) died with Joseph. Larger-than-life bluster and showmanship died with Brigham (what prophesying and revealing he did has been walked back by the church and is not mentioned anymore). Joseph F. Smith testified at the the Red Smoot hearings (1903) that there had been no prophetic activity for 21 years at that point. The early church was a phenomenon and a GREAT story that’s still being told (that’s why I stay tuned—I have no skin in the church game at all). Nowadays, LDS, Inc. is old white guys in suits and ties who very obviously have no revelatory or prophetic acumen or power of discernment—or at least keep it very well hidden. The one true church of God? Meh . . .

      • Glenn

        The way I see it, Joseph frequently aligned himself with people who could elevate his position from wherever it was to something better — and he did that by flattery and giving them preferred positions in his inner circle, playing on their ambitions. Martin Harris gave him a financial boost. Oliver replaced Martin and gave Joseph a creative boost with his collaboration on the BoM “translation.” Sidney Rigdon was the next boost to Joseph, bringing in hundreds of parishioners and instant credibility. What was Joseph to do when Oliver was of no more immediate use to him — especially since both Oliver and Sidney had ambitions of their own? He shipped him off to “Zion” to clear the way for Rigdon. Eventually Oliver figured it out and was pissed. Fascinating stuff. Gangsters of Zion.

        • CocoaCoveredHeretic

          If nothing else you have to be impressed with Joseph’s ability to use people, screw them over, and still maintain good relationships with them over the long run. Either they were all incredibly gullible, or he was one smooth talking bastard!

  • Emily

    Re: women being grateful for the priesthood in the home… You guys laugh at that, but being grateful is all we can f–king do. It’s all we’ve got. Righteous boys and men can pass sacrament, break bread, give blessings, preside, and on and on, but all women can do is be grateful for the righteous men. It sucks, guys. From primary, to young women, to RS, we’re taught that the boys have this special responsibility, but we can have the same blessings, and we’re equal, and here’s how to help men be righteous priesthood holders by dressing modestly and being stay at home moms. Gag. This episode was hilarious and infuriating. You’re hilarious. The subject is infuriating.

  • Emily

    Just listened to your disclaimer at the end that it would’ve been nice to have a woman on, so thanks for that! Since Heather didn’t want to be on, maybe you need more than one token female infant. 😉 I get that you can’t be everything to everyone. Keep talking. Tell anyone that criticises, including me, “You knew what I was when you picked me up.”

  • Matthew A

    Great topic guys. Enjoyed your discussion.

  • Brad

    I know my wife, whose dad was a non-member, appreciated the priesthood much more than I did. I never felt comfortable giving blessings, because from very early on I realized all I was doing was repeating bromides and saying what I hoped to happen. And of course, always remembering to give God an ‘out’ by proclaiming that it was all dependent on the faith of that person. Near the end of my slow burn out, I would secretly hope I would be asked to do the anointings of blessings, just so I wouldn’t have to come up with something meaningful to say.
    I think my wife just expected a powerful feeling or something to the priesthood that she hadn’t felt growing up. She even asked for a blessing on her wedding night, which really caught me off guard. I’m pretty sure she became annoyed when she had to prod me to give our children blessings each new school year. With four kids, I really couldn’t come up with anything new to say when it came down to the youngest one’s turn.
    I was happy to hear others have similar experiences. I’ve seen my share of men crying during blessings, feeling something powerful that never really transferred to me. Now that I’ve defiled my priesthood irreparably, I think my wife understands now that I wasn’t trying to be a deadbeat P’hood holder all those years. I was just being honest with how I felt.

  • Norenzayan

    I have a question that I’ve never gotten an answer on. I once took an institute course on the restoration taught by the institute director. In our lesson on the priesthood restoration, he mentioned that Oliver Cowdery’s journal describes the event, and he says that in contrast to Peter and James who appeared as glorified, resurrected angels, John the Baptist simply stepped out from behind a tree and appeared to be a normal human. He said that this was great evidence for the official narrative, because why would Cowdery have thought to include a little detail like that?

    I’ve not been able to find any reference to the supposed journal entry from anyone else. Has anyone heard this tale before?

    • Travis Gower

      I’m assuming that Cowdery’s journal entry is recalling the alleged event many years later, since my understanding is that there are no contemporary accounts (which calls into question the reality of it at all).

      I don’t know why Cowdery would think to include such a detail. And that’s just the point: we don’t know. There could be a wide variety of reasons, and it’s wrong to just assume that he NEVER could have purposefully included it.

      I think the idea that John is still alive was fairly widespread, even if not as widely believed. This might be precisely why Cowdery included it.

      • Yeah, but if there wasn’t even a journal, then that renders the whole thing moot. Sad, but moot.

  • RunningOnEmpty

    We had a big discussion on dusting your feet off when I worked in the mission office. We finally approached the mission president about it to ask if it was something we could do.
    He laughed and said, “Before you do that, you need to talk to me about it.”
    One of the elders said, “What if an angel tells us to do it?”
    He laughed again and said we still needed to talk to him first.
    This same elder then asked, “What if the angel tells us not to tell you?”

    It was all pretty humorous, but we seriously were concerned that we would misuse our holy wizardry. I had a companion dust his feet off at one house; the same companion that told a blind lady that we would come to her house later and heal her blindness. Good times.

  • Paxton

    Another great discussion by the IOT team…other than it kind of went off the rails at about the 45 min mark.

    One of my personal favorite Priesthood blessing stories was told by D. Michael Quinn, “To Whom Shall We Go?”, Sunstone #137, May 2005 about Apostle James Talmage.

    “When he was eleven year old, James Talmage accidentally blinded his younger brother Albert with a pitchfork. At age thirty-one, while writing the first draft of “The Articles of Faith”, James asked members of the First Presidency and the Twelve to administer to his brother. They inquired if he had the faith to be healed after twenty years of blindness, and Albert said “Yes.” In the Priesthood ordinance of healing, they promised him a complete restoration of his sight. James recorded his equally unconditional expectation for the fulfillment of this apostolic blessing. Days passed, then weeks, then months, and Albert remained blind. Years passed, and Albert received equally emphatic promises of restored sight from other apostles and prophets. He remained blind the rest of his life. Did either brother experience religions doubts as a consequence? The diaries of James E. Talmage do not say so specifically, but they do indicate his own bewilderment and ultimate resignation about the non-fulfillment of priesthood blessings given and received in absolute faith.”
    Personally I don’t understand why these failed blessings fail to put a dent in believers testimonies…

    • Travis Gower

      My reflex is to assume that such references were retroactively inserted into the section, but my brief searching doesn’t find any reference to such a modification.

      • Tony Navarro

        The first instance of ordinations to a “higher” priesthood occurred during a church conference held June 1-3 1831 in Kirtland at Isaac Morley’s farm. At the time the only office in this priesthood was High Priest.

        I believe Travis is correct that D&C 84 was altered when it was published in 1835, adding text that parsed out which offices belonged to which priesthood (such as adding Elder to the M.P.).

  • Heather_ME

    If the only real Mormons are those who have received the second anointing does that mean the rest of them are…. dry feet Mormons?

    *cue trombone*

  • Lance

    When talking about giving blessings, it reminded me of a friends story about a buddy of his who’s appendix burst while serving his mission in Africa. He was in serious life threatening trouble. His mission president showed up to give him a blessing and “blessed his spirit to be released from his body to return to his Father in Heaven.” Fortunately, the missionary was able to get the medical attention he needed and survived.

    • Thomas Moore

      So it just proves that the Elder wasn’t faithful enough to give up the ghost and die?!?!

  • clutchperformer

    Sixth Gen Campbellite here (Rigdon relative).

    Disciples of Christ Campbellites have a form of ordination but it’s usually not quite as liturgical or ritualistic as a more formal faith might be. They are kind of making it up as they go along from congregation to congregation, IMO. Mostly, I think they are just following a generic Presbyterian model. Ironic considering Campbell’s roots. They do have a body that does officially endorse and ordain.

    The Christian Churches Campbellites have almost no ritual ordinations I’ve ever observed. There is no governing hierarchy or ecumenical institution to speak of.

    The Churches of Christ Campbellites absolutely rail against such ostentatious displays of ritual.
    Elders are senior men, usually. Preachers/Ministers (Pastor is not a Biblical title) are not ordained in any consistent fashion and there are no church bodies or institutions that conduct ordination or issue endorsements. Preachers are actually not often a leadership role. The Elders run the show (budgets, hiring, payroll, etc.), the Deacons do the shit work (cleaning, grounds maintenance, Joy Bus driving, etc.) and the Preacher is basically everyone’s bitch. Only the Youth Minister is more lowly.

    Positions and titles in one congregation carry virtually no authority at another congregation.

    We have no equivalent to Priesthood – other than just being male. Males can pass communion, read scriptures at the pulpit and lead singing.

    I’ve actually never seen anything like LDS Priesthood anywhere else.

  • Chad

    Great podcast! That School House Rock song was fantastic.

  • Yobispo

    John Hamer GOLD. The song is permastuck in my head. And then this quote, “it depends on when you are”. I love JH.

  • RP

    I can’t tell you how many times I would bitch with my similar thinking girlfriends about how our priesthood husbands weren’t doing their duties and “exercising their power”. And we had TBM husbands. Your perspective has helped me understand maybe why they weren’t so “gusto”.

  • Nancy

    Randy -the ox lady was actually Mary Fielding Smith, Hyrums widow.

    • Travis Gower

      I was gonna say the same thing, but I wasn’t 100% sure, and I certainly wasn’t going to do a minute’s worth of easy online research.

  • Obadiah Dogberry

    Thanks again for the song at the beginning of this episode. I am at the Ward Fathers and Sons camp now and listened to it about 5 times in a row too get ready for all the priesthood talk!