Ep 306 – Conversations with My Past, Present, and Future Gay Self: The Mormon Matrix


Posted September 22nd, 2016

Benji takes us on a journey of the Mormon Matrix and tackles the ever-growing accounts of suicide ravaging the LGBT Mormon youth. Featuring conversations with a mother and a father of gay teens and mixed with badass music.

  • Threadbare Blossom

    I was already loving this minisode, sharing it on FB, tearing up, and bam–it ends with my MOST favorite Lauryn Hill song! ❤️✨❤️

    • Mr. Benji Schwimmer


  • Kim

    Will you please post a list of the music?

  • Mr. Benji Schwimmer

    Here you go, Kim:

    All These Years – Shivum Sharma
    Lucky Now – Ryan Adams
    Over The Rainbow – Shawn McDonald
    Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness – -Smashing Pumpkins
    Naive – Sleeping At Last
    Birdcage Religion – Sleeping At Last
    Wires – Sleeping At Last
    In The Sun – Aron Wright
    Sons and Daughters – Allman Brown feat.
    Liz Lawrence
    To Build a Home – The Cinematic Orchestra
    Heaven Breaks – Sleeping At Last
    Same Love – Macklemore & Ryan Lewis feat –Mary Lambert
    Beautiful Mistake ( instrumental ) –
    Michael Shulte
    Earth: The Pale Blue Dot – Michael Marantz
    Watermark – Sleeping At Last
    To Zion – Lauryn Hill

    • Kim

      Thank You!

  • CocoaCoveredHeretic

    Benji this was an awesome episode! Very very well done! Thanks for taking the time to put it together!

    • Mr. Benji Schwimmer

      I really appreciate the kind words. Thank you.

  • SleepyPhoebe

    Wow! So beautiful!!!

  • AxelDC

    Great episode. Thank you for this. As a fellow gay exmo, I can fully empathize. I also know how hard it is to watch close friends and relatives struggle with this issue. The most frustrating thing is that being gay is no big deal. It’s only a big deal because Mormons et al. choose to make it so.

  • derrick

    This was a beautiful episode, so sincere, heartfelt and compassionate. Thank you for your message. I held back tears until you read the names of those who took their lives. In that moment, I realized the gravity of our sin as a culture.

    • Mr. Benji Schwimmer

      Thanks, Derrick

  • Karl Pipkin Hite

    Thoughts were provoked. Emotions were compelled. It’s worth a listen.

    I’m an active member. However, when I think about my kids, my nieces and nephews (all still young), and what I’d do if one of them were gay, I get mad. I’m mad because I know I’d be on their team, even if they would’t be on their own team. And I know that some of my family would privately support and love their own only to turn around and publicly support the church. I preemptively, publicly support and love gay people, even if it ruffles some tail feathers, even if the church says ‘no’.

    I’m remembering the touching message from 2nd Kings 6:16. The good guys are facing a battle and the odds aren’t looking good. Elisha’s servant despairs until Elisha says “Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.” And we discover a hillside is full of unexpected, divine reinforcements.

    In Utah it seems like there’s more of them than us; there are more bigots, more parents willing to disown or distance themselves from their own kids. But that’s just not the case. If we won’t keep it to ourselves, it will be clear that even in Utah, even in the church–They that be with us are more than they that be with them.

  • Austin Larsen

    Wow, what an amazing episode, it was an emotional ride to say the least.

  • Well said and nicely done! It’s, like, professional, like.

  • Rick

    Jesus Benji, way to make me cry on the way home from work.

    As a cisgendered, straight, white man I worry that I “don’t get it” even though I think I do. As a dad, the thought that this might happen to one of my children makes me angry. It would be enough to get me to leave the church even if I was still in it.

    Thank you IoT for continuing to be a platform where these messages can be sent out. Thank you Benji for such a well put together, beautiful podcast. I’m considering trying to get my mother to listen to it (she loved you on DWTS). Thank you mama dragons for being that support for those who so desperately need it.

    • Mr. Benji Schwimmer

      Never thought ‘ Jesus ‘ and ‘ Benji ‘ would be used in the same sentence! Ha. Thanks for the kind words 😉

  • sageturk

    Amazing job Benji – every time a powerful message like this is produced someone new sees the light, gains their courage, or puts down the gun. It’s happening slowly but we are winning – one lgbtq person’s life at a time.

    • Mr. Benji Schwimmer

      I agree, Sage. And kudos to you for your Athiest Series – so so good!

  • Seth L.


    Thank you for giving us this. Very thought provoking and touching. Thank you for the work you put in to creating this and being open to share a part of yourself with the world.

    • Mr. Benji Schwimmer

      Thank you kindly, Seth

  • David Parsons

    Thanks Benji, I really enjoyed that. I am one of those parents with a transgender kid that was trying to make a difference from within the church, but stopped going after the November policy last year. In it’s current form, your essay is probably most appropriate for people who leave the church and then find it. I.e. perfect for infants on thrones listeners, but not for Peter Priesthood with a gay kid, or even for that active gay kid. I am wondering if you are considering re-framing this message in a way that might be more accessible for active people. For example removing the lamanite language, and some of the more direct criticisms of the church. It could make a huge impact coming from you. I don’t want to take anything away from what you have done, as the essay show who you are and what you stand for, and I appreciate that stance. I’m just thinking about where it could go next.

  • ExmoInOhio

    I don’t often comment (2nd or 3rd time) but felt compelled to in this case.

    As a straight white male, contemplating the possibility of having an LGBT child was what led me out of the church (still childless) so this issue hits home for me.

    This was a well-done, extremely powerful episode. I’ll often skip episodes that don’t involve the actual Infants. I’m glad I didn’t in this case.

    Thanks, Benji.