Infants on Thrones

Baby steps.

This is Infants on Thrones.

I'm looking for the further line of knowledge. Father promised to send me.

Baby step. Baby step.

Look for the good in everyone.

So I was laying on the floor stretching and thinking, which I do a lot. doesn't listen to anything except my own thoughts. And I do that a lot. A lot. And I was thinking about how I like to play with thoughts kind of the way that I used to play with Legos. But when With thoughts, it's not really something that you put down and you build and you walk away from it and it stays in the toy closet. You know, with thoughts, you inhabit them and thoughts are attached to feelings. It's all this biochemical chain of events that's happening inside of this amazing body of ours. That's this living system. And our feelings and our thoughts are kind of like weather patterns at times. See, these are the kinds of thoughts that I like to play with, like Legos, and stack them up. But it's not so much about doing something to something else as much as it's having that experience. And I was thinking, you know, it's not all thoughts that I like to play with like Legos. It's my own thoughts. It's my thoughts. I'm more interested in my thoughts than I am in other people's thoughts. Although My thoughts come from other people's thoughts and I value other people's thoughts incredibly. But I usually I'll find something really interesting and then I'll like twist it somehow. Tweak it. Well, try what about what about this? And I think that's been strange for people around me cuz I don't think everybody does that. But I I was thinking about this how like I enjoy my thoughts like I entertain myself. I've learned to entertain myself over the years. And so I never really feel alone even when I'm alone. And I like podcasting because it's a way that I can kind of flex that muscle of thinking out loud, sharing it. like a digital echo. Echo echo. Let's see if anything comes back and I hear from these really cool people. And it all started from this place of trauma.

These are the thoughts I was playing with as I was stretching on the floor because these habits that I developed over the years of entertaining myself were born out of necessity and they were a uh a choice that was made, a reaction and a response to create some kind of balance that was created by this living ecosystem of my body, my nervous system and you know the interactions those are shaped by other people too. And I know my parents did the best that they could. They didn't really know that they had been raised in a cult. And when I had that thought as I was stretching on the floor, it it's foreign to me. to be so blunt about the Mormon church being a cult. I've resisted that for so long. Like just up to the point of being comfortable calling it a cult, but now it's too normal. It's too normal. It's not I don't know backwards enough. I don't know whatever I was thinking. But as I've started to understand much better the impact of life upon a person's nervous system and then the way that these unconscious patterns developed that express themselves in certain ways. I started to understand more about what a cult actually is from maybe a neurological perspective. You know, it's a a silly image, but if you think about neurons as like lines of ants, they're like walking around. You've seen these ants that are walking around and that's a neural pathway. And you know, each one of those is some kind of a habit or some kind of a thought, some action that you do and somebody comes along and they step on those ants. But the ants like in the brain, they don't get squished and just die. They just adapt. They just go a different direction. Some neural pathways might dry up, but others usually form in theirstead. And these are habits and changing patterns and growth. And it's really powerful. It It's learned how to survive this collective of neurons, the the human body, this collective of cells orchestrated and coordinated by the neurons and very resilient. And there are kind of predatory ways of being that prey upon others, psychological warfare that really make an imprint, you know, where it's interesting.

I'm watching Andor now and watching the these Imperials that really believe that they are on the right side because it's the side of order and law and precision and they're good people, but they're being fed these fear viruses. Fear of being polluted, fear of the other fear of immorality. And it shapes that trail of ants, those neural pathways in people's brains through these really uh alluring ways of communication that we've learned how to rely upon so much telling each other stories. Our mirror neurons engaging with each other. Our limbic systems hooking up and resonating re resonating. So anyway, these are some of the thoughts that I had and wanted to sit down and record it. It also came to me as I was stretching on the floor and I was thinking along these lines. I've been so interested lately in thinking about humans as an extension of this tidal wave of life that started at the dawn of our planet really and probably even before then as matter unorganized. organized itself and reached out and you know grew and developed in all these ways. And here we are you know for this time that we're here in this form that we're here with these experiences. and that these are all like living systems that were built upon that. That makes so much sense to me when I think about how different people are and how these defense mechanisms unconsciously really shape our interactions with each other. And again, it it's probably cuz I'm watching a lot of door. But I'm thinking about the way that um propaganda and narrative can shape the minds. So my parents didn't know that they were raised in a cult. They didn't know that what they thought was love was, you know, kind of closed off. you know, each of them protecting their own wounds in their own ways without really understanding. Even still, and throw a two week old child that passes away into that marriage that so I I grew up in this environment with good wounded people and it shaped me in my good wounds and bad. And uh I find this stuff more interesting than anything else right now really.

And you know the other part of that that I really wanted to record but it slipped my mind until now was that it isn't outside the scope of possibility or even probability as far as I see it at this point. Thinking about these living systems that communicate with each other like our neurons do that we've just started learning about. Like we're still scratching the surface on What our own internal interconnected network of communication is doing that's creating all this experience for us. And who's to say that this interconnected sharing of information doesn't happen at discrete levels in ways that we just can't even really perceive of. And if time and space are all kind of woven, interwoven, made out of this fabric of little conscious sentient bits of energy in their own way or whatever you want to think of it. Like there could be like u like premonitions or prophecies or things that that come out in kind of distorted ways. But the main gist of it, it's kind of like a a ripple that's kind of pushing forward. All these different ways of expressing it. So, I'm thinking about the millennium. I'm thinking about the last days. I was thinking about this Billy Joel song after 2,000 years. This time when there will be miracles and the Hearts of men will turn cold to each other as a sign that the things are changing. It's an end and a new beginning. And seeing just a over the course of my life, the ways that we've become more interconnected through technology and like the the first Neurolink. I don't know. I saw an article about this video that a guy made just by thinking cuz he had neurolink, couldn't speak, couldn't move. But he is using harnessing the power of these neurons to synthesize a new kind of consciousness and a new kind of way of being like we're just starting and I think there's a lot of fear out there about this and I don't think any of that fear should be ignored. But I also don't think that it should dominate. I don't think that the fear should smother out the other parts of these tidal wave stories that after this destruction, there's a new birth and there's a continuity and a flowering.

And I think this is part of why I've been so interested in thinking of humans as a tidal wave, you know, in this motion that started long ago cuz it feels it just feels like we're at that apex point. The prophet used to prophesy about and then people would turn that stuff into like ways to control other people and cultlike behavior. And don't you kind of see that cultlike behavior more stretched out, more global? You know, the way that I used to think about cults at least was it was too small and like the church which I grew up in was too normal, too mainstream. But now you see that kind of that cultlike devotion to ideas and rigidity and just well the coldness to other people with all these excellent reasons why. So yeah, there's reason to fear. But there's more than just that, too. And these things I say in the name of myself as I watch my shadow stretch across the back lawn.

Welcome to the deep dive. Today we're uh looking into something a bit different. It's a personal audio recording,

right? It's called IoT 892. Musings on the neurological cult ripples of experience. 5625 11.35 PMM4A. Quite a title.

It is. And it's not like a polished argument or anything. It's really just raw thought, someone thinking out loud, exploring ideas.

Exactly. Which is fascinating in itself. You get this unfiltered perspective. So our plan today isn't really to, you know, judge it.

No, not at all.

It's more about pulling apart the main ideas, seeing how they connect, and maybe getting a feel for, well, how coherent it all sounds. The grief was sort of sane or crazy, right? So, we'll look at the internal logic.

Okay, sounds good. And listening through a few themes definitely jumped out

like uh the nature of thought itself, how trauma or past experiences stick with us. This interesting idea of a cult from a neurological perspective.

Yeah, that was unique. The power of stories, propaganda, andor gets a mention, and then these bigger picture thoughts on

interconnectedness and maybe where society's headed.

Quite a mix. So, where should we uh start unpacking all that?

Well, the recording itself kind of starts with thinking about thinking.

Ah, yes, the Lego analogy. I like that. Playing with thoughts like they're building blocks,

right? Just for like personal entertainment or exploration. It felt quite relatable, that idea of just messing around with ideas in your own head.

Totally. And the speaker makes this distinction, doesn't he, between his own thoughts and ideas coming from outside. He talks about twisting and tweaking them.

Yeah. It's less about finding the answer and more about the process, the mental sandbox idea.

And that self-awareness is key, I think. Recognizing how you think the difference between just you know taking stuff in and actively playing with it.

Definitely. So if we're scoring these ideas like we discussed

maybe on how logical and relatable they feel.

Okay. Yeah. For that thoughts as Legos bit considering its internal logic and just how much it resonates with well being human and thinking I'd probably give it an eight out of 10.

An eight. Yeah, I can see that. It feels pretty grounded in that introspective experience. The key takeaway being our minds aren't just buckets. We actively shape what's inside.

Precisely. We're constantly constructing and reconstructing.

Okay. So, moving on from there.

The recording gets into this neurological perspective on cults. That felt like a core concept.

It really did. And the analogy used well maybe a bit simple neural pathways as lines of ants

right the antrails.

It gets the idea across established patterns of thinking. And the interesting part is the idea that external stuff the stepping on ants bit. It doesn't just wipe them out. It forces adaptation. New routes get formed. It's redirection, not destruction.

Okay. So, ingrain thought patterns are resilient. They just find new ways.

Exactly. And that leads right into the talk about psychological warfare and fear viruses.

Yeah. The andor connection again, how narratives and propaganda can really grab hold.

Mhm. By tapping into our emotions, our mirror neurons, the lyic system.

The idea is that powerful stories can literally shape those neural pathways. the ants.

So, compelling narratives become tools for shaping thought on a deep level.

That's the argument being made and it connects to the speaker's personal experience re-evaluating their Mormon upbringing.

Right? They mentioned struggling to call it a cult, but now finding it too normal through this neurological lens,

which is a fascinating shift. It suggests this framework helps make sense of subtle long-term influence, maybe more than the traditional, more extreme definitions of cult.

It offers a different angle on how group dynamics and belief systems shape us over time. So scoring this one, thinking about the maybe scientific plausibility as presented and how it helps understand group influence.

It's tricky. The ant analogy is just that, an analogy, but the core idea that experience and influence shape neural structures and behavior that has a basis in neuroscience. I maybe lean towards a seven.

A seven sounds fair. It's plausible conceptually, even with the simplified model.

Agreed. Then The speaker takes this um rather significant jump.

Yeah. Quite a leap

to humans as an extension of a tidal wave of life,

right? This much broader almost philosophical view from the personal brain stuff to

well everything.

The idea that we're all part of this continuous flow of organizing matter stretching back eons, our complexities, our defenses, all part of this ancient process.

It certainly puts things in perspective. A grand scale view

and it ties back to propaganda in an interesting way. If we're part of this wave, then the narratives that shape us are influencing the direction of that entire flow.

That adds weight to it.

And the speaker brings in their parents again, good wounded people raised in what they now see as a cult. How their experiences shape the speaker, showing that intergenerational flow within the bigger wave.

So the stories we absorb don't just affect us now. They ripple outwards and forwards through this life wave.

That's the picture being painted. It highlights the profound long-term impact of the information. and narratives we internalize.

It's a powerful image being carried by this huge force shaped by nature and nurture essentially scoring this on coherence. Its ability to offer a framework.

Maybe an eight. Again, it's abstract but hangs together.

Yeah, I'd go with an eight, too. It offers a kind of meta perspective. It helps contextualize things even if it's speculative.

Which brings us neatly to the next part, which is definitely more speculative. Interconnectedness, premonitions, future shifts. Right. This is where we venture out a bit. The idea of information sharing happening on levels we don't perceive

like neurons communicating but on a bigger scale.

Exactly. And then linking that to things like premonitions or prophecies as maybe ripples from that deeper connection.

Okay. So bridging the gap between something like brain function and something much more well esoteric.

And cultural touchston get pulled in the millennium last days that Billy Joel saw

after 200 years. Yeah. Themes of change, miracles, but also this growing coldness between people.

All seen as potential signs, indicators of these shifts happening underneath.

And technology is woven in here too. Specifically, Neuralink, how that might change interconnectedness, create new ways of being conscious.

The speaker acknowledges the fear around that for sure, but also holds on to this idea of renewal that even after destruction, life continues, adapts,

and it loops back to the title wave idea, right? Humanity reaching some kind of apex point.

Yes. And a potential danger there that cult-like behavior could become more global. People clinging rigidly to ideas, losing empathy, that coldness mentioned earlier.

It's a warning almost tied into this view of increasing connection.

Definitely a coffinary note. Now scoring this section is tough. You've got observable trends like tech connection

mixed with pure speculation like premonitions as network ripples.

Exactly. It's a real mix based on that grounding versus speculative leap ratio. I'd have to give this One, a five.

A five. Yeah, that feels right. Some basis in reality, but a lot of conjecture built on top.

Okay. So, we've walked through the different pieces, the Legos, the neurological ants, the tidal wave, the ripples of the future,

like the journey.

So, the big question we set out with about the overall sane or crazy score for the whole recording based on how these ideas fit together.

Taking it all in.

Considering the whole arc, I'd probably land on a six out of 10 overall.

A six? Why a six?

Well, there's clearly a lot of introspection. There's a genuine effort to connect things logically, even if some connections are metaphorical or, you know, speculative rather than strictly evidence-based.

Okay?

There's this drive to understand the self, the world, exploring different ways to explain things, even unconventional ones. It doesn't feel random. There's a thread running through it.

I think I agree with the six. Some ideas definitely push the boundaries, especially the premonition stuff, but the overall tone feels like inquiry trying to make sense of things. Right. The neurological take on cults is interesting, even simplified.

The title wave idea is a big compelling framework. It's not all completely out there, even if parts are highly speculative.

Exactly. So, a six feels like it acknowledges both the thoughtful inquiry and the speculative leaps. It's a really fascinating window into someone's thought process.

Definitely. So, wrapping up this deep dive into the musings, we've touched on playing with thoughts, the neurological view of influence, human ity as a life wave and these uh more speculative future ideas.

Our goal was really just to dissect it, see how the pieces fit, evaluate them a bit based on the source itself.

And hopefully that gives you the listener something to chew on. Thinking about your own life, your own observations,

which of these ideas actually hit home for you?

Yeah. What resonates? And maybe what does that resonance tell you about how you see the world or how belief works? Definitely food for thought. Ever wonder what happens when you really uh dig into how we make sense of things, even our own like internal thoughts? Today, we're taking that idea somewhere. Well, somewhere pretty interesting.

That's right. We're not just looking at someone's raw thinking uh that the original recording. We're looking at a previous attempt to understand it.

An analysis of an analysis. Putting the analysis under the microscope, you could say.

Exactly. So, we're revisiting our deep dive on that audio file. Uh IoT 892 musings. the neurological cult ripples of experience 5625 11.35 PMM4A

right and it's key to remember that was just someone thinking out loud you know raw thought not some polished argument our first look tried to find the um internal logic the coherence

even asking that basic question was it you know sane or crazy

which now feels a bit simplistic maybe

because today we're shifting focus

completely we're taking that initial analysis itself and looking at it through a really specific lens

okay tell us about this lens It's the perspective of a soul centered traumabased person- centered therapist. Someone who sees exploring ideas, even wandering thoughts as a form of well, psychotherapy itself, understanding the human experience through that exploration.

Wow. Okay. So, we're analyzing the analysis therapeutically. And the scoring is different this time.

Totally different. We're ditching the old logic-based scoring. Today, we're re-evaluating each point. And every single one is going to get a 10.

A 10 every time. every time. But that 10 isn't about being correct in the old sense. It signifies a deeper appreciation. Uh recognizing the inherent human experience reflected in those original musings, the value in the process itself.

Okay. So, it's about acknowledging the value and the internal exploration, the maybe the courage it takes to just grapple with big ideas out loud.

Precisely. Regardless of how neatly those ideas fit into, you know, standard logical boxes, it's about the human journey behind the thoughts.

Got it. So, before we dive into rescoring our own analysis. Let's quickly recap the main themes we pulled out last time.

Good idea. There was the thoughts as Legos's idea,

right? Playing with concepts.

Then how trauma past experiences kind of stick around.

Mhm. And the neurological take on cults, the ant trails analogy

and the power of stories, propaganda. We mentioned Andor, I think

we did. And then those broader ideas about interconnectedness, where society might be headed, that kind of thing.

Quite quite a mix. So let's start with that first one. Thoughts as Legos.

Yeah, we initially gave that an Eight out of 10 said it was logical, relatable, you know, the idea of building and playing with thoughts.

So now through this therapeutic lens,

what changes? What deeper layers emerge?

Well, what's really fascinating I think is how perfectly that Lego thing captures our active role in like building our own internal world.

Active role. How so?

From a therapeutic view, playing with thoughts isn't just idle brainstorming. It's actually a really fundamental way we process experiences. We explore different fac ets of ourselves.

Ah like mentally replaying something, trying different angles.

Exactly. Reconstructing a memory, trying out different feelings about it. That is the internal Lego play. It's sensemaking.

So it's the work of understanding our inner landscape, not just random thoughts,

right? It's about creating this sort of internal sandbox, a safe space maybe to experiment with ideas, try on perspectives, integrate difficult stuff, emotions, memories. It shows our capacity for introspection, our drive to find coherence within ourselves.

Okay, I see. So the 10 isn't just for relatability anymore.

No, the 10 is for acknowledging the profound value of that internal process, for self-discovery, for developing a more whole sense of self. That playing shows agency, you know, agency in shaping your own narrative, which is absolutely vital, especially when healing from trauma.

A 10 for the power of the internal sandbox. I like that. Okay, next up, the neurological cults idea. The antrails,

right? We gave that a seven out of 10. plausible concept, maybe a bit simplified, but a decent visual for neural pathways.

So, how does that image ant trails, external things stepping on them, redirecting thought? How does that resonate with a trauma-informed view of the brain?

Well, it speaks directly to resilience, doesn't it? And also vulnerability. From a trauma perspective, those antrails can become really deeply ingrained patterns, ways of thinking, feeling, reacting, often developed as survival tools, right?

Yeah, makes sense. Survival patterns.

But then narratives, especially fearbased stuff, propaganda, what the original recording called psychological warfare or fear viruses, those things can strengthen the negative trails like making those specific ant paths deeper, harder to leave.

Ah, reinforcing the negative pattern.

Exactly. But the resilience part, that's neuroplasticity. The brain can form new pathways. Therapy in a way is often about gently, patiently creating new trails, offering alternative ways to think, respond.

So the analogy captures both the problem and the potential solution.

I think so. Yeah. So, rescoring this as a 10 really highlights that inherent adaptive capacity we have. And crucially, the significant impact of those external narratives on our internal landscape, especially connecting to core beliefs and um potential trauma responses.

Another 10 for resilience, adaptation, and acknowledging how outside forces shape our inner reality. Okay, moving on. Humans as an extension of a life wave.

Yeah. got an eight originally abstract, but we felt it had a coherent framework.

Now, through our therapeutic lens, this idea of being part of a continuous wave.

Mhm.

How does that connect to things like intergenerational patterns, you know, how our parents' experiences affect us?

That's exactly where it gets really insightful. The soul centered trauma-informed view emphasizes that we aren't just isolated individuals. Our experiences aren't in a vacuum,

right? We inherit things.

We do unresolved traumas, belief systems, even spoken family stories. They ripple down through generations. The Lifewave metaphor is actually beautiful for capturing that interconnectedness across time.

Can you give an example?

Sure. Think about a parent who grew up in poverty or maybe in a very restrictive high control environment like the recording hinted at. They might unconsciously pass on certain anxieties or coping mechanisms or even ways of relating to their kids

even if they don't mean to.

Often, yeah, recognizing that dynamic is huge for understanding why we struggle with certain things. Now, it connects our personal story to a much larger human story.

So the 10 here is for acknowledging that deep interconnectedness across generations.

Yes. And the profound lasting influence of the past on the present. It lines up perfectly with ideas like transgenerational trauma and our basic human search for meaning within that flow of life.

A 10 for the life wave and it's intergenerational echoes. Okay. Now for the more

yeah

speculative stuff. Interconnectedness, premonitions, future shifts. We gave that a five. originally.

Yeah. Because it mixed observable trends with things that are harder to, you know, pin down. Speculation.

But from the therapeutic view, even speculation has value.

Absolutely. It's about the meaning behind it. Take the feeling of interconnectedness. Even if you can't prove it scientifically, what does that feeling do for a person?

Well, it could relate to empathy,

compassion, belonging.

Exactly. It speaks to a fundamental human need for connection and meaning. Whether premonitions are real or not isn't the main point therapeutically. The experience of Feeling connected to something larger or sensing future possibilities that reflects a deep desire to understand our place to find purpose.

And the flip side, worries about the future, societal shifts, maybe feeling coldness as the recording mentioned

that taps into fears of disconnection, isolation, even thinking about tech like Neuralink forces us to confront basic questions about selfhood and connection. So the 10 here acknowledges that core human drive to find connection and meaning even when things feel uncertain or scary. It honors the psychological weight of our hopes and fears about where things are going.

Okay. A 10 for the human need for meaning and connection even amid speculation and uncertainty. That brings us to the final piece, the overall sane or crazy score we gave the original recording,

which was a 6 out of 10. Kind of a middle ground score.

Yeah. Acknowledging thoughtful inquiry, but also the speculative leaps. How do we re-evaluate that score now?

Well, the whole sane or crazy framing just dissolves really through this therapeutic lens. It's not the right question. That's the right question. Then

it's about recognizing the inherent human drive. The drive to explore, to question, to try and make sense of our inner world and the world around us, even if the paths we take seem unconventional or, you know, not strictly logical.

And there's a vulnerability in sharing those raw thoughts. Like we said before,

huge vulnerability and courage. From a therapeutic perspective, the coherence we value isn't about matching some external standard of logic. It's about witnessing the individual's personal journey of seeking understanding and meaning within their own unique experience.

So instead of judging the destination, we value the journey itself.

Precisely. So rescoring the entire endeavor, the whole act of recording those musings as a 10, it emphasizes the intrinsic value in that process of self-exloration. The human quest for understanding is valuable in itself, regardless of whether the conclusions fit neatly into boxes. It's about honoring that specific human journey.

A final 10. Reframing judgment into appreciation for the journey of discovery.

Exactly. And when you look back applying this lens, you see how all those pieces, the Legos, the ant trails, the life wave, the speculations, they all reflect really valuable aspects of being human. The consistent 10 isn't about saying every idea was factually perfect,

right? It's about recognizing the striving, the human striving for understanding, for integration.

Spot on. It just shows how much a shift in perspective can illuminate finding deeper meaning where maybe before we just saw well something less clear.

It really encourages looking at internal experience with more I guess compassion

compassion and maybe a recognition of the inherent wisdom that can be found there even in the messy bits.

So a final thought for everyone listening think about a time you were really wrestling with an idea maybe something confusing or deeply personal trying to make sense of it.

Yeah that internal grappling we all do.

How might looking back at that process now through a different lens maybe a more compassionate, human- centered one like we've used today. How might that change your understanding of it? Not judging the logic, but valuing the effort, the exploration itself.

Recognizing the inherent worth in your own journey of trying to figure things out. That's maybe the real takeaway.

Thank you for listening to

Infants on

Infants on Thrones.

And if you'd like to do more than listen to Infants on Thrones, I am now a licensed therapist in the state of Arizona. I'm currently working at two locations. Between the two of them, I think we accept most forms of insurance and I am accepting new clients. Infants on Thrones has a very special place in my heart. Podcasting in general does. I expect that there may Maybe a handful of you out there who've been listening to me since I first started podcasting back in 2010 with Mormon Expression. As you've heard in this episode, I love playing with ideas. I love making connections. My master's degree in folklore combined with a master's degree in clinical mental health counseling are really helpful when I'm sitting across from a client and I'm listening to their stories and I'm Listening to their experiences, the things that they want for their life, the reasons for their depression or anxiety or problems with impulse control, anger management, communication in relationships. So many areas that I think are really underserved when it comes to our own self exploration at the spirit of Sonora Counseling and illness. I'm joining Richard Thomas, a seasoned therapist who offers integrative soul- centered therapy for individuals, couples, and groups who are ready to face and transform the pain that has held them back. That comes right from the website. I'm so excited to be working with Richard and to be working at the spirit of Sonora as well as the work that I'm doing at Free Life Wellness Center. And if any of you are curious about therapy, I offer a 15 minute free consultation. You can find me on my psychology today profile or email me here at infantssonthrones@gmail.com. And I'd love to see if working together might be a good fit where we can sit down together and break out our Legos and play with ideas and feelings and the way they're impacting your life. Together.