Ep 254 – True Millennials


Posted January 17th, 2016

Matt, Randy, and Glenn smack down Elder Nelson’s recent address to BYU-H students. America’s favorite dancer Benji Schwimmer joins us for the second half. And Randy’s favorite celebrity Gwenyth Paltrow may or may not make a special appearance as well.




  • Ryan Gregson

    Thank you Randy, for raising awareness of the dangers of vaginal steaming.

  • Brenda

    omg, glenn! GO WATCH GATTACA NOW!

  • Brenda

    Wow, Randy… you know more about vaginas in general than most TBM women know about their own vaginas. You must have really boned up on the topic.

    • Randy_Snyder

      LMFAO! Thanks Brenda. That was funny. But the vagina is an ecosystem. Don’t be a douche and fuck with it.

  • A very thought-provoking podcast, indeed.

    I was trying to loose some weight and get into shape so that I might live longer, but having now heard of vaginal steaming, I wonder if I haven’t lived too long already. So, can you get steamed at a day spa, or do you need to make a special trip to Steamatic? Are there any career opportunities involved? My uncle had a carpet cleaning business for a while . . .

    I like the idea of the Church of the Very Last of the Latter Day Latter Day Saints. Of course, in the immortal words of Dr. Manhattan, “It’s already too late. It always has been. And always will be.” There’s something supremely comforting in those words.

    Before you go accomplishing the impossible, check to see if the “impossible” outcome is desirable. You might be wasting your time and the Lord’s miracles. Does anyone have a feel for the ROI on LDS missions to eastern Europe? What about Chechnya?

    One thing that makes three-patterns so satisfying is that three is an odd number. Odd numbers are inherently complete. There’s usually an even count of whatever content there is and then the “cherry on top” makes the overall item count odd. Have you ever had a microwave that beeps four times when the time is up? I’m always waiting for that last beep, the one to make it complete that never happens. When you’re writing or speaking, one point is not enough; how could it be? Five are too many; people will be checking their phones before you get through the whole list. Three is just right.

  • Thomas Moore

    When I first read Nelson’s address; I almost pulled a Glenn and started a strongly worded letter. I was upset that God waited for over 2 decades to give this new revelation (after the U.S. legalized Same-sex Marriage) and not during the time(s) that Europe and non-legal unions were being performed. Not during the time single and gay adoptions (marriage legality had nothing to do with giving children loving parents/homes!)
    Anyway, who would I have sent the letter to? My TBM friends and family on Facebook? The COB, even though I’m apostate? Let me just say. WELL DONE on this episode. Also WELL DONE on getting Benji on IoT. I hope he’s podcasts with you a lot more!

    • Mark Norris

      “The Nauvoo”? I would’ve expected someinthing like “The SS Jared’s Wooden Submarine With Magic Rocks Inside”.

      • Thomas Moore

        I just wanted to point out that for a “last days” religion; Mormons sure stretch the final days to mean centuries….

        • Mark Norris

          Indeed. Like all apocalypticists, they have to stretch out the timeframe of THE END because it’s never going to actually happen, at least not in the supernatural way they expect it to.

          One interesting thing about what it means to be in the “latter days””, I’ve heard some people say that it doesn’t mean “last days”, just “more recent than former (Bible times) days”, emphasizing the (relatively) recent Restoration instead of an imminent end. That’s absolutely not what they were thinking when they adopted the name LDS back in the day, but it’s a pretty smooth reframe for the modern church, dontcha think?

      • I think that was “The SS Brother of Jared’s Wooden Submarine With Magic Rocks Inside?” It seems Jared was only his brother’s publicist.

  • Great episode and please take what follows as a friendly suggestion from one of your gay loyal gay listeners…For love of all that is MoHo, please find anyone besides Benji for your guest spokesgay! The kid is still very conflicted and hasn’t been fully deprogrammed from all his years he was indoctrinated in LDS theology, especially the uniquely homophobic mormon variety thereof. I made the mistake of watching all 5 hours of his Mormon Stories interview with John Dehlin, who probably realized he had met his match when it comes to self-importance! Benji is a victim of his own semi-success, which I’m sure was amplified inside the even smaller LDS bubble where even minor celebrities are treated like mormon royalty. Long story short, Benji has a habit of slagging off other gay men that don’t meet his exacting standards of sexual purity, physical attractiveness and obsession with hyper-masculinity (a problem many gay men have absorbed from the larger culture but it would be laughable if it weren’t so tragic when these self-proclaimed “straight acting gays” weren’t so mean to anyone they perceive as feminine – why Benji thinks he is some beacon of masculinity is beyond me).
    Benji needs to chill out and work on his own demons for a few years before he takes on the mantle of expert for the entire gay mormon experience. Seth Anderson or Michael Ferguson would make for a much better show as they have been out for a while and are heavily involved with gay activism while Benji is probably just hoping to jump start his career. I hate to sound mean and catty but he just doesn’t come across as a likeable guy…
    PS – I’m not sure what Benji means when he claims he is sexually attracted to women but still gay – either he doesn’t know what bisexual means or more likely he thinks this will earn him some masculine cred. Since he has never had sex with a woman and most non-religious gay men at least experimented with girls before coming out, I’m not sure he really gets the concept…

    • Thomas Moore

      Wow! Never heard anyone shit on someone’s personal history, upbringing and experiences…and then to have the gal to ask them to change who they were, are and want to be? I am a fan of Benji and other Exmormons who are now becoming more famous than the Mormons: e.g. Aaron Eckhardt, Marco Rubio, Amy Smart, Brendon Urie, Christina Aguilara Julianne and Derek Hough, Jewel, Katherine Heigl, not to mention Tal Bachman and Steve Benson.
      So, why the shade at Benji? He even admits that he’s not an A-list celeb and plays down his celebrity status. He’s had experiences with being a missionary, falling in love with a woman (not lust) because he felt that’s what God wanted, having the personal faith trials of trying to regain a testimony based on “fluff”. The Guy rocks!!!

    • Matt

      Thanks for your opinion. I think you assume a bit too much about Benji. I think you’ll find he’s progressed quite a bit since his Mormon stories interview.

      Seth and Michael are both very close friends and they’re always welcome on. I don’t think there needs to be one gay representative. Each person’s experience is their own. We have John Hamer who provides his insight as a gay man, but I don’t think he would claim to speak for the entire gay community.

      You seem to have some strong opinions about Benji based on some personal experience which appears to have created a bias against him which is fine. We all have them.

      Also, I don’t think our little podcast will do anything for his career. He’s doing all right.

    • Mark Norris

      “PS – I’m not sure what Benji means when he claims he is sexually attracted to women but still gay – either he doesn’t know what bisexual means or more likely he thinks this will earn him some masculine cred. Since he has never had sex with a woman and most non-religious gay men at least experimented with girls before coming out, I’m not sure he really gets the concept…”

      Sexuality is not binary or trinary, it’s a spectrum, correct? Benji could find women sexually attractive to a small degree and still consider himself gay. Just as I consider myself “straight”, but still can find myself very mildly aroused by an attractive male. Neither of us need identify as “bisexual”. Or so I’ve always understood it.

      • Straight-splain some more please! I’ve been an out gay man for over 30 years and I know all about binaries and spectrums. It all sounds great in theory but as straight guy, you can’t appreciate the insidious nature of homophobia and heterosexism, especially when gay men internalize and reproduce this toxic masculinity with each other. I hope Benji has dropped the “straight acting” BS and mellowed out since his Mormon stories.

        But whatever, its your podcast but Benji is a public figure and he doesn’t need a bunch of straight white knights protecting him from valid criticism.

        PS – I resent the snide insinuation that somehow I am jealous or resentful of Benji when he is the one slagging off gay men who dont fake hypermasculinity and aren’t suffering from ex-mormon sexual repression. It is borderline homophobic coming from a bunch of straight guys…

        • Mark Norris

          I’m not trying to “straight-splain”; the tone in my comment was inquisitive, not informative, as demonstrated by my making a statement of how I understood things, and then a clarification question.

          So again, in that spirit of trying to understand your point, when you said “I’m not sure what Benji means when he says he is attracted to women but still gay [paraphrasing, he’s either bisexual or posturing as more “masculine”]”. What I am trying to understand, are you saying that a person can’t validly identify as straight or gay unless they’re all the way on the end of he spectrum, otherwise they ought to identify as bisexual?

        • Ryan Gregson

          You might be interested in listening to the latest episode.

        • Matt

          Straight-splain – I haven’t heard that before. I like it.

  • Turdfurgeson

    It was have been a much more fun smackdown if Nelson would have replaced “impossible” with “inconceivable.” I imagine Glen inserting the audio clip from princess bride each time and it makes me giggle.

    Also I’ll take a large in a “true millennials steam their vaginas” tee shirt when they’re available 😉

    Great episode fellas

  • Turdfurgeson

    I think Randy’s innocent phrase “Jesus is just about to come” would also make a great t shirt.

  • Mike

    “That’s because you heard the story in seminary instead of the Old Testament.”

    Genesis 32:30 – “And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

    • Mark Norris

      Indeed. The idea that Jacob wrestled with God isn’t just some whacko seminary idea known only in LDS circles, it is a common reading of the text throughout Judeo-Christianity.

  • I work with graphics, and I just couldn’t help myself. Repurposed an old vacuum cleaner ad.

    • Well that’s the wrong image, and I don’t see an option to replace it. Here’s the right one.

  • Orrin Dayne

    Gwyneth Paltrow has got Randy really steamed.

  • I hope if you guys visit the future, we’ll hear Jonas Brothers 😀


  • Charles

    The three of you have a great group dynamic. I feel like you guys could pretty much discuss any topic and it would be entertaining, especially if Randy has one too many whiskey sours and brings up vaginal steaming. I could not stop laughing.

    Looking forward to Gwyneth references each episode going forward a la John Oliver.

  • Opens Jars

    Thanks for the vagina love, guys!

    As you guys pulled me back into my teens and early twenties, I remembered how the message that only the strong will survive really affected my desire to stay in the fold. And that, for me, is the most powerful propaganda for entrenching believers. They continue to preach what makes members special and strong and able to do “impossible things” is the fact that they are in the fold. The ones that stay have special powers–moreso than anybody on the earth. And the poor little bastards that leave are the weak ones who just don’t have what it takes.

    It’s just so weird. And I am floored at how well it works.

  • There was a certain part of this that literally had my roaring in laughter (it was 2AM and I had to cover my mouth so as not to wake up the person in the next room). Thank you for that, and for all your interesting/fun. discussions! P.S. Boobs.

    • I was actually shaking with laughter and worried I’d wake my husband. Such funny stuff!

      • I’m not surprised! I was exactly the same 🙂 There was a part where they were all laughing, and the longer it went on the more I was losing it! Great moment 🙂

    • Ryan Gregson

      “Do you not care about the thousands of women who hang on her every word, and then STEAM THEIR VAGINA!?”. best line in IOT, hands down.

  • AxelDC

    Benji saves the day! That discussion was going down rabbit holes that even Lewis Carroll couldn’t imagine and then Benji came in.

    Given all the homophobic antics of the LDS Church these days, it’s good you have a couple of gay voices to steer the discussion. As a gay man, it was frustrating to hear these well meaning but misguided straight men speculate on the gay Mormon experience when there are literally thousands of us out there to draw from.

    Overall, it ended up being a pretty good episode after some hilarious but head scratching early tangents.

    • AxelDC

      BTW, I like Gwyneth Paltrow. She may be nuts, but I loved Shakespeare in Love and a A View from the Top. If she wants to steam her lady parts, well, they are her lady parts.

      • I liked “Duets” which Glenn played the closing tune from near the end of the podcast. Old Gwyneth is a smallish part of “Duets.” The parts I liked best revolved around Paul Giamatti and Andre Braugher (someone you don’t see a lot who is really good). Since Gwyneth married that dude from Cold Play, I don’t really care what she does with her lady parts.

  • This was great. When you guys went into laughing fits… I was dying. It’s episodes like these that I really love. You guys just hanging out, having fun. Thanks

  • Mark Norris

    The Nelsons’ talks were pretty bad, but let’s count our blessings. Imagine how awful the last 6 months would have been for LGBT Mormons if Packer were still around. “The Policy” probably would have been something like “Children with a SSA Parent MUST BURN AT THE STAKE.”

    And I bet you the TBMs would still be all for it…cringe.

  • Dan

    Randy, the drunken ranting put this one over the top. I’m going to suggest that next time you guys set on doing a smack down that you make it a drinking game. The content is too good to not do it.

  • Sterling C

    This is where the party ends, Elder Nelson… I feel like a hypocrite talking to you and your ‘bigot’ friends.


  • Marc young

    Why does Glenn keep insisting that doctors should be critical thinkers?

    Of the population in Arizona, only about 5% of it is Mormon. Yet every one of my doctors have been Mormon.

    You would think with so many Mormon men (always men) they would be into science and thereby be scientific thinker–at least Glenn thinks so. I really doubt it. For two reasons.

    As Nelson shows us, it doesn’t matter how much science has improved our lives. In fact, they would say that the advancements come from God anyways–which is maddening considering that ignores the fact that advances in medicine correlated with modern medical research, and not prayer. But I digress.

    The second reason is that doctors are NOT critical thinkers. They are analytical thinkers. You don’t really need to be a critical thinker to be a doctor. Mostly you just need to spend years learning the standards and a few more years applying them.

    • Glenn

      You clearly confused me trying to remember which apostle Nelson is (he’s the heart surgeon, right?) and then playing with the Holland “dodo” thing for me making some repeated claim that doctors should be critical thinkers. Nope. Not what I was going for.

      • Marc young

        OK. I guess Randy’s preceding comment about how Nelson does whatever he was told made it seem like you’re replying to his line of thinking.

        Sorry, it simply drives when people equate doctors with independent thinkers who can “figure it out”.

  • hetaira

    Loved Benji’s input (Randy would, too!), and thanks for the warning about steaming. I wonder if it’s the “energetic release” that keeps Gwen coming back (so to speak) more than the steam?

  • Tim

    I have really mixed feelings toward Russell M Nelson. When I was reading one of my anesthesia textbooks, I was surprised to see some of Dr. Nelson’s research cited in one of the figures. I started to recognize that he was a big deal. In 2014, the University of Minnesota Department of Surgery featured him as a speaker and presented him with an award as Alumnus of the Year. His talk was AMAZING — full of history, innovation, and inspiration. He worked in the first lab to develop cardiopulmonary bypass. He was there with the pioneers in the field, and he was one of them. He developed his own cardiopulmonary bypass machine. He talks about how he received revelation to prayer on how to fix a tricuspid valve. He offers wonderful advice on compassionate care.

    But one part of his speech in the department of surgery showed a different compartment of his brain, a part that functions in apparent isolation from his critically-thinking research brain (video at http://mediamill.cla.umn.edu/mediamill/display/999224222). Elder Nelson asserted that if doctors would study the scriptures as medical text, they would be able to provide better care for their patients. As evidence of this, he cited instructions for washing in Leviticus. Wow! I think most people would find the book of Leviticus shocking, barbaric, and immoral/unethical. But to take that one step further and recommend it as a literal text to guide medical care is preposterous, foolish and dangerous. Perhaps Elder Nelson will give a talk in the future on how true millennials should go further than the current policy of bigotry and literally follow Leviticus 20:13:

    13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    Look for new church policy changes to include excommunication for sex while menstruating (Lev 20:18), execution of primary children wearing Harry Potter gear (Lev 20:27), and prohibition of temple endowments by anyone with physical blemishes including (but not limited to) flat noses, broken feet, broken hands, kyphosis, scoliosis, dwarfism, cataracts, macular degeneration, blindness, conjunctivitis, scurvy, scabs, testicular fracture, hypogonadism, or testicular cancer (Lev 21:17-23).

    But joking aside, this man has saved millions and millions of lives with his research and innovations. He has an amazing mind. It’s a tragedy that his focus has turned from innovation, compassion, and saving lives to narrow-minded bigotry that destroys lives. So, Randy, if you are reading this, at least consider tempering your contempt for the for the bigot Elder Nelson by recognizing Dr. Nelson for his amazing contributions to medical science.

    • Randy_Snyder

      I read it and it was a great post. Thank you for giving your insight. I was drunk and that makes me hyperbolic. But it is well established that intelligence and believing in irrational things are not mutually exclusive at all. I recognize that Russell is far superior to me in the intelligence department and he has accomplished so much in his former field. But I share your disappointment that his faith tradition has commandeered that intelligence to promote dangerous and damaging bigotry. It’s a tragedy when you really think about it. Oaks is another example in his field where a great mind has been hijacked to the cause of bigotry.

  • csteve

    Yeah, f u, Matt

  • csteve
  • Spencer Morgan

    Christians have predicted and expected the end of the world since Jesus himself, who was a Jewish apocalyptic preacher who predicted a divine cataclysm in his generation. Paul followed suit, but later believers had to downplay the apocalyptic elements in Jesus’ message to fit with the fact that it hadn’t happened. This same dynamic is apparent from the origins of mormonism down to now, though the expectation is still very fostered but kept vague intentionally.

  • Thomas Moore

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