Thanks (for the clarification) Giving

Minisode

Posted November 24th, 2015

Glenn reflects on the role that Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-Transgender issues played in his life in coming to an understanding of what it really means to follow the teachings of Jesus, and what it really means to not. In the process, he hopefully finds a few things to actually be thankful for approaching this Thanksgiving 2015.

Glenn

  • Thomas Moore

    Good ole Packer… but here’s the problem… I’m 51. So I grew up in a different Mormon church than you guys. I grew up in the age of the mark of Cain and no inter marriage between the races unless special permission and council was given. Eugenics was still being discussed within classes and groups and I was taught this from apostle George Cannon, ” The inevitable consequence is, the race is degenerating, new diseases are introduced, while effeminacy and barrenness are on the increase: and worse than all, this evil condition of the body has its effects upon the mind…No diseased and effeminate person was permitted to marry and curse the world with a tainted offspring. ” http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/ So we were taught more of a pre-destination than a choice. So for the G.A.s to tell GLBTs to marry and act straight to my generation was wrong, wrong, wrong. We were told they were going to be single angels (glorified baby sitters yes, but they would be in the celestial kingdom as help meets)…. So when did this all change???

  • AxelDC

    Could you have found a more homophobic intro song? “Dude looks like a lady?” You think gay men look like ladies???

  • Don B

    Thanks for sharing the stark reality. Boyd pecker, sorry, packer and his ilk really are just men dressed up as prophets, seers and revelators who are nothing more than sheep in wolves clothing leading the blind into the perverbial gutter. So sad to have wasted so many good years putting my ladder up against the wrong wall. Let’s be thankful for the time we have left and listening to many more hours of new IOT content that will be much appreciated by those who have ears to hear unvarnished reality.

    • Daved6

      President Packer died. No need to still pout about him and talk about him like he’s still alive. Also, do you really view LDS people as roaming around in the “perverbial” gutter? We should all probably take pity on you. Sounds like a tough place to be in–that spot of misery you inhabit.

  • Thomas Moore

    I’m not goin to just say I’m 51 (almost 52) so I grew up in a different Mormon church than a lot of you younger people. We grew up with a lot more eugenics and fore ordained decisions. We were told gay people were not to get married; inter-racial marriages were right out. here’s a link by George Q. Cannon teachings that were still taught. “No diseased and effeminate person was permitted to marry and curse the world with a tainted offspring.””Joseph Smith had penetration enough to know, that so long as the bodies of men are weak, degenerate, and tainted with impurities inherited from their fathers for a thousand generations, it is impossible to accomplish with them any great moral improvement, or indoctrinate them with many divine truths. Therefore, being divinely aided, he introduced a system……He taught that none but healthy men should marry”http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

    • Daved6

      George Q Cannon and his ideas died long before you were born. The gay issue back in your day was more along the line of “they can be cured. Just shock ’em until they stop getting aroused by their own kind. And then they can get married and have kids like the rest of us valiant types.”
      That kind of view carried on tot he 90s, although the shock therapy seemed to have died down some. But at some point they started realizing they were negatively effecting kids and family’s lives with that notion of telling to forget their “problem” and get married. So in recent years, apparently, the advice is to stay celibate. I’m sure that will change too.

      • Thomas Moore

        Although G. Cannon was long dead by then; the “mental illness” of homosexuality was still around and was still not considered a psychological issue by all; but a physiological issue. Hence the whole “Atlas men” ads in the back of comics and eugenics… Also it wasn’t just the Mormons. The whole American society had the “confirmed” bachelors and the “Klingers” who really were trans people, but 30 yrs ago we used them as a running joke for trying to be draft dodgers. So??? All in my youth I remember we had confirmed bachelors who were always going to be ward clerks or ward organists or Masculine sisters who were always going to be primary leaders??? So what I was taught was that for those people was that for their heaven is that it would be a “hell” to be eternal “breeder” wouldn’t it? They instead would be eternal scribes, decorators, emcees, Angels, Divas of the highest orders. But never Kings and Queens; Just Celestial servants to the gods; Sort of Personal Assistants to the Stars if you will.

        • Daved6

          Oh I get ya. It was considered a mental illness. I think, and I may be wrong, a good forty years ago it seemed like the best thing for gay members was therapy, at least through BYU. Maybe 40 years ago at BYU it was a big thing but the rest of the Church it was not?
          And when did the “just continue to be faithful, go on a mission, get married, and have kids” advice get pushed on people?

          • Thomas Moore

            I don’t know when that started? The Mormons obviously didn’t read Kinsey or Masters and Johnson; so they were still of the ilk of weak fathers and over bearing mothers. So though it tugged at heart strings to see an RM running to hug his mother on his return, some of the looks from the other men is “that’s odd?” or the scene from the movie “Latter Days” where the mother tells her son, “Men don’t love. Women love.” The only time men were allowed to show emotion it seems was during conference when filled with the spirit. But things like Women’s softball teams or sports was never, ever promoted. It was always grass roots or out of necessity. If a man was weak or effeminate he was put away in a position where he was to work alone (clerk, organist, librarian, etc…)

  • Glenn, thanks for adding in that part you recorded a week ago or so. Some times I need to rant and hear rants and hear people being upset about the stupid stuff. Some times it seems like people go around trying to act like they aren’t hurt, or upset. But I know at times I am. And its good to hear others have those moments too.