Ep 522 – Smackdown: The Excommunication Rap

Smackdown

Posted September 20th, 2018

Excommunication is all about love, right?  Listen in as Glenn, Tom, Matt, Delany Darko, and Chelsea Shields smack down a video blog from Anti-Mormon Crusader Extraordinaire, Jeremy Goff.

Glenn

Matt

Tom

  • Dan

    Wow! Goff takes an isolated example of an investigator fearing what is clearly a social consequence of joining the Mormon church (damaged relationship with landlord) and presents it as Catholic Church policy. What a fantastic strawman. Then he has the balls to brush off genuine institutional consequences at BYU as completely unrelated. Considered with his framing removed, his evidence directly disproves his point. I was dumbfounded by the logical cherry picking.

  • I love this invented idea that you lose all your covenants because they are tied to church membership. Something that wasn’t even invented until 1939 by John A. Widstoe. Widstoe invented it completely out of whole cloth and used self-plagiarization in order to establish his idea in his book “Priesthood and Church Government”

  • Don

    While I do not believe the story, I had to do a double-take when Goff offered an example about a lady who “felt the spirit leave” when she was excommunicated. What was she excommunicated for? Was it the profit that counseled her? Did she organize a group to tell him that he was wrong? It Seems to fly in the face of his stance that people are not excommunicated for trivial things. Lot’s of kool aid being consumed here!4

    • AxelDC

      He said she was exed for having an abortion.

  • Gabriel von Himmel

    I do I do, I love THE COURT OF LOVE and you should too.
    Some say it’s Orwellian but it works well for ferreting out truth and harmony for “our heavenly father.”

    • AxelDC

      Do it to Julia!

  • Brrrrr

    Jeremy is absolutely correct, excommunication is an act of love. Why Joe Smith so loved Jane Law, he found it needful to excommunicate her husband and his second counselor William Law.

  • Eric

    Oh shit, when are you releasing your full length rap album?!!!

  • AxelDC

    I watch a lot of Youtube experts sharing their opinions on various topics. Some present it as “I like this because”, where their expertise is their own personal opinion, explicitly stated as such. Others present it as “I’m a practicing ER doctor, so I’m going to tell you my professional opinion on this related topic.” Their expertise is established by professional training and experience.

    WTF is Jeremy’s expertise? This isn’t a personal testimony. This isn’t an expert witness. He has no professional or personal experience that he brings to this discussion. He tries to come across as a SS teacher, but he’s not using the manual and he hasn’t been called by the Bishop to represent the Mormon Church.

    Kate Kelly’s experience is being a Mormon women abused by institutional sexism. Sam Young’s expertise is as a former bishop dealing with sexual abuse cases. John Dehlin’s expertise comes from interviewing dozens of Mormon for his Mormon experience vlog. Jeremy dismisses them all because they counter his preconceived notions.

    He presents falsehoods and half truths as true either because he is a liar or because he doesn’t understand what he is saying. He repeatedly invokes the term “capital punishment”. That’s execution, not excommunication. In Medieval times, the Catholic Church executed people who were excommunicated, but they lost that power long ago. Even if the Mormons wanted to use capital punishment, they lack the power even in Utah. He also uses the word embiddle more than once. I thought he meant embitter, but he says embiddle and embitter in the same phrase. Embattle makes no sense in the context, so he coining words without defining them.

    He claims there is no social shaming in the church, then proceeds to denounce Kate Kelly, John Dehlin, and Sam Young, undermining his own point. He would not have known about them if the Mormon Church had not publicly denounced them to do exactly what Jeremy is doing: discredit them. They are discredited in his eyes because they were exed, thus proving that social shaming is a core part of excommunication.

    Jeremy makes no attempt to empathize with those who are exed, but buys the social shaming brought on them by the judgement to condemn them himself. In this he is breaking Christ’s law of judging other people.

    Now some sanctimonious twit still dressing like he is on a mission should not bother me, but he has 30,000 followers and I’ve seen him reposted on FB multiple times. This is the danger of church members: they adopt opinions handed to them by church leaders and then pretend that makes them experts. Jeremy has no expertise in this area, demonstrates his own ignorance at multiple points, but acts as though he is an authority on the matter.

  • AxelDC

    Jeremy states that people who leave the church cannot return because they have become embittered, unlike new converts.

    Could it be that know they know better? Compare someone on a blind date with a new guy to an ex-wife who left her filandering, money wasting husband. The difference is knowledge earned by harsh experience, not “embitterness.” Embitterness is a symptom, not a cause.